If it wasn't for the sign, I would have thought I was in the wrong place.
Tag: mesh06
Wednesday, May 17, 2006
How to Engage the Blogosphere
May 16, 2006
From left to right:
David Carter
Sarah Spence
Nathan Rudyk
Note the live IRC chat being shown on the screen above their heads! Risky Web 2.0 behaviour indeed.
Tag: mesh06
Traditional media covering Mesh
Tuesday, May 16, 2006 at the beginning of the Corporate Blogs session.
Did anyone see TV coverage of Mesh??
Tag: mesh06
Corporate Blogs - How and Why
Tuesday, May 16, 2006
From left to right:
Jeremy Wright
Tara Hunt
Debbie Weil
Tag: mesh06
Building a Brand Online
May 16, 2006
Left to right:
Jonathan Ehrlich, Bruce Philip, Jim Coudal, and moderator Stuart MacDonald.
Tag: mesh06
Building a Brand Online
Tuesday, May 16, 2006
Moderator: Stuart MacDonald (SM)
Panelists:
Jonathan Ehrlich(JE), senior vice-president of Chapters Online
Bruce Philp (BP), president and managing partner of GWP Brandengineering
Jim Coudal (JC), Coudal Partners
JE: the business models today are worse because anyone with a credit card can start a business. Segments are emerging into each other.
Consumers feel they have a right to say something and say it loud. Marketers can no longer gloss over problems with a product; they are now forced to spend money on delivering a great experience.
SM: Are we creating a great experience?
JC: People are creating a market and companies without accessing the mass market. We will see more of that.
SM: “Follow the money” – originally he did mostly traditional placement for Expedia, and a little to web advertising; by the time he left, most of his marketing budget was going to paid search ads.
SM: What happened to having a great campaign and running it for two years?
BP: a lot of his industry is doing 30 second video. If people laugh at the video then it is considered to be influential.
JE: the tools available to them for managing the money is much greater. From a marketing perspective it is great, but reaching customers is tougher.
SM: We are standing at the end of something or the beginning of something, depending on how you look at it. Can’t we just do this for free? Can’t we just connect directly with some woman in MySpace? Where is this headed? Marketers still have a job to do building a brand.
JC: I don’t know how you take a multi-million dollar brand and translate that into a consumer marketing campaign. When something works they do more of it, and when it doesn’t they do less of it. They are coming closer to having to develop a better product. If you create a product and branding together, there is a lot of possibility.
JE: It is all about investing in the experience. If you aren’t delivering on the experience, you are dead.
BP: a brand is a cultural phenomenon that allows you to charge more for something; that is disappearing.
JE: No, brands stand out in the environment.
BP: The whole model has been democratic. The underlying assumption has been that if you hear me over and over and over again in exchange for watching Ed Sullivan, you will buy my product. Television programming being on TV has been a democratic process.
Rob Hyndman: Thus far marketing has been one-way, marketers talking to the audience. What happens when the audience can talk back? What happens to the model?
BP: Example: Tylenol fiasco when there was tampering with the bottles and people died. It was handled well with a PR puppet – you liked the fellow who spoke and trusted him. Ten years later the brand is stronger than ever.
SM: Bullshit can be called faster with a brand. People will say you are right or you are wrong.
BP: A brand was never created in a boardroom. It is an election campaign that never ends.
JC: Some of the messages have started coming from underneath. The ads his company writes are conversational. Tylonel incident is like the first blog entry.
Audience question: Everyone is saying it is a conversation, but no one is saying what to do with this. Doesn’t it make sense to find those who love your brand and turn them into bloggers?
JE: People participating on the web have overarching influence on where things go, how things are done.
SM: This conference is an example – came up with what they thought was a consumer insight; they asked on their blog what people would like to see and listened to them. Don’t underestimate the value of just asking.
JC: Coudal Partners do a lot of things that don’t seem to have a purpose – movies, contests, etc. They have created products they want e.g. jewelboxing shows such as Dead Can Dance tour; the people who go to the shows want to see the same thing. How do you do this for a big consumer brand?
Audience question: You can’t talk about iPod branding without talking about their advertising campaign. YouTube – ugly website, quality of video is bad. Google is a search box with a button to click. These things have nothing to brand.
BP: Stop thinking like a marketer. Marketers are frequently wrong about this stuff. Apple brand has, from the beginning, been an advocate for its customers. They have stood for computers serving people, not people serving computers.
JE: Search was dead until Google came along. Brand is a collection of experiences; brand is not just what something looks like. The experience that everyone had when they first used Google was positive. They started with a great experience.
JC: You would think Google Video would outstrip YouTube, but uploading video with YouTube a lot easier.
Audience question: How do you engage the blogosphere?
JC: Coudal does monitor the blogosphere. Jewelboxing brand has a blog detailing how they built the business including what went wrong. Maybe the concept shouldn’t be whether our business should have a blog, but whether a blog should have a business. Build your audience first and then find what business they would like to see.
Blogging is just all about writing. This is nothing new.
SM: One of the first serious applications of consumers taking part has been TripAdvisor – the first and biggest application of what people like me think about stuff – it is a referral model.
Audience comment: Everyone defines quality different. YouTube video quality is not necessarily important.
Audience question: If we are move from mass to micro communication model, don’t we need the data to know how to target the message. How do we use the analytics?
SM: Marketing is no longer about putting something into an email box. It is all about the data.
BP: It is not just about data; it is about imagination, or we all wouldn’t be here. Segmentations may or may not be the way to determine value and how to spend my money.
JC: JE, do you target wildly different people on your website?
JE: we are just getting started on the personalization front. It is all about data. Amazon has figured out how to do this. Looking at their customers' data and their book buying habits.
JC: Personalizing can be dangerous. For example, see the blog post: “My TiVo thinks I’m gay.” [Connie's note: I believe he is referring to the classic Jeffrey Zaslow article in "The Wall Street Journal" from December 2002, "Oh No! My TiVo Thinks I'm Gay." Subscription probably needed.]
SM: Don’t get too caught up if you aren’t crunching the data mining because nobody is.
JE: Privacy and personal issues around things. If someone put something into a cart and then decides against buying the item, do they have the right to send them a coupon to encourage them to buy it.
Audience question: Unleash the blogger within. What about engineers, internal people who love the brand and are blogging about it?
BP: His organization does a tremendous amount of internal marketing before selling it to the consumers. To do this it has to be a mission-driven organization.
Audience question: I hear more fear than anticipation. Is it because big companies are represented on the panel? In terms of the brand and the whole brand experience, will the brand be created by the consumer, and the consumer decides whether the brand stands?
BP: How does this differ from the past? The strongest brands are benevolent dictatorships.
Tag: mesh06
Moderator: Stuart MacDonald (SM)
Panelists:
Jonathan Ehrlich(JE), senior vice-president of Chapters Online
Bruce Philp (BP), president and managing partner of GWP Brandengineering
Jim Coudal (JC), Coudal Partners
JE: the business models today are worse because anyone with a credit card can start a business. Segments are emerging into each other.
Consumers feel they have a right to say something and say it loud. Marketers can no longer gloss over problems with a product; they are now forced to spend money on delivering a great experience.
SM: Are we creating a great experience?
JC: People are creating a market and companies without accessing the mass market. We will see more of that.
SM: “Follow the money” – originally he did mostly traditional placement for Expedia, and a little to web advertising; by the time he left, most of his marketing budget was going to paid search ads.
SM: What happened to having a great campaign and running it for two years?
BP: a lot of his industry is doing 30 second video. If people laugh at the video then it is considered to be influential.
JE: the tools available to them for managing the money is much greater. From a marketing perspective it is great, but reaching customers is tougher.
SM: We are standing at the end of something or the beginning of something, depending on how you look at it. Can’t we just do this for free? Can’t we just connect directly with some woman in MySpace? Where is this headed? Marketers still have a job to do building a brand.
JC: I don’t know how you take a multi-million dollar brand and translate that into a consumer marketing campaign. When something works they do more of it, and when it doesn’t they do less of it. They are coming closer to having to develop a better product. If you create a product and branding together, there is a lot of possibility.
JE: It is all about investing in the experience. If you aren’t delivering on the experience, you are dead.
BP: a brand is a cultural phenomenon that allows you to charge more for something; that is disappearing.
JE: No, brands stand out in the environment.
BP: The whole model has been democratic. The underlying assumption has been that if you hear me over and over and over again in exchange for watching Ed Sullivan, you will buy my product. Television programming being on TV has been a democratic process.
Rob Hyndman: Thus far marketing has been one-way, marketers talking to the audience. What happens when the audience can talk back? What happens to the model?
BP: Example: Tylenol fiasco when there was tampering with the bottles and people died. It was handled well with a PR puppet – you liked the fellow who spoke and trusted him. Ten years later the brand is stronger than ever.
SM: Bullshit can be called faster with a brand. People will say you are right or you are wrong.
BP: A brand was never created in a boardroom. It is an election campaign that never ends.
JC: Some of the messages have started coming from underneath. The ads his company writes are conversational. Tylonel incident is like the first blog entry.
Audience question: Everyone is saying it is a conversation, but no one is saying what to do with this. Doesn’t it make sense to find those who love your brand and turn them into bloggers?
JE: People participating on the web have overarching influence on where things go, how things are done.
SM: This conference is an example – came up with what they thought was a consumer insight; they asked on their blog what people would like to see and listened to them. Don’t underestimate the value of just asking.
JC: Coudal Partners do a lot of things that don’t seem to have a purpose – movies, contests, etc. They have created products they want e.g. jewelboxing shows such as Dead Can Dance tour; the people who go to the shows want to see the same thing. How do you do this for a big consumer brand?
Audience question: You can’t talk about iPod branding without talking about their advertising campaign. YouTube – ugly website, quality of video is bad. Google is a search box with a button to click. These things have nothing to brand.
BP: Stop thinking like a marketer. Marketers are frequently wrong about this stuff. Apple brand has, from the beginning, been an advocate for its customers. They have stood for computers serving people, not people serving computers.
JE: Search was dead until Google came along. Brand is a collection of experiences; brand is not just what something looks like. The experience that everyone had when they first used Google was positive. They started with a great experience.
JC: You would think Google Video would outstrip YouTube, but uploading video with YouTube a lot easier.
Audience question: How do you engage the blogosphere?
JC: Coudal does monitor the blogosphere. Jewelboxing brand has a blog detailing how they built the business including what went wrong. Maybe the concept shouldn’t be whether our business should have a blog, but whether a blog should have a business. Build your audience first and then find what business they would like to see.
Blogging is just all about writing. This is nothing new.
SM: One of the first serious applications of consumers taking part has been TripAdvisor – the first and biggest application of what people like me think about stuff – it is a referral model.
Audience comment: Everyone defines quality different. YouTube video quality is not necessarily important.
Audience question: If we are move from mass to micro communication model, don’t we need the data to know how to target the message. How do we use the analytics?
SM: Marketing is no longer about putting something into an email box. It is all about the data.
BP: It is not just about data; it is about imagination, or we all wouldn’t be here. Segmentations may or may not be the way to determine value and how to spend my money.
JC: JE, do you target wildly different people on your website?
JE: we are just getting started on the personalization front. It is all about data. Amazon has figured out how to do this. Looking at their customers' data and their book buying habits.
JC: Personalizing can be dangerous. For example, see the blog post: “My TiVo thinks I’m gay.” [Connie's note: I believe he is referring to the classic Jeffrey Zaslow article in "The Wall Street Journal" from December 2002, "Oh No! My TiVo Thinks I'm Gay." Subscription probably needed.]
SM: Don’t get too caught up if you aren’t crunching the data mining because nobody is.
JE: Privacy and personal issues around things. If someone put something into a cart and then decides against buying the item, do they have the right to send them a coupon to encourage them to buy it.
Audience question: Unleash the blogger within. What about engineers, internal people who love the brand and are blogging about it?
BP: His organization does a tremendous amount of internal marketing before selling it to the consumers. To do this it has to be a mission-driven organization.
Audience question: I hear more fear than anticipation. Is it because big companies are represented on the panel? In terms of the brand and the whole brand experience, will the brand be created by the consumer, and the consumer decides whether the brand stands?
BP: How does this differ from the past? The strongest brands are benevolent dictatorships.
Tag: mesh06
Building a Community
Keynote Conversation: Building a Community
Tara “Miss Rogue” Hunt,
- Online marketing director, Riya.com
- blogger HorsePigCow
Tuesday, May 16, 2006
An interactive session, involving audience participation.
Who here have blogs? Who have multiple blogs?
Photos
- Flickr
- Riya.com
- Bubbleshare
Videos
- YouTube
People are becoming disenfranchised and want more. They want to find community.
- The Consumerist – how to sue an airline
People recognize marketing lies. There are too many unsatisfactory choices with products.
DRM locks people into their choices. Loosing your choice isn’t good either.
There are too many messages – there are ads everywhere. Who uses FireFox? You can get rid of the pop-ups and other ads.
The end consumer revolution has been around forever, but something has changed.
Threadless – T-shirt designs and people vote for them
Citizen media – what does it mean for the future. Bowiechick - video of girl using new Logitech camera potential. 250,000 downloads. What does this mean for marketing in the future? What is the potential??
- is this advertising? We don’t know
- we are finding a distrust of anything that is broadcast
- the video has been passed around MySpace only because it was a kid, not an expert
- what about a hybrid model, where they take this girl and put her video in an ad?
The wisdom of crowds – when you become an expert you stop learning.
Pinko marketing manifesto:
Pinko marketing wiki:
- marketing in the post-Cluetrain era.
Pinko principle #1
- inbound, rather than outbound messages – creating the tools for people to voice how they use a product; we can start using money used for outbound messages to instead make the product better
Pinko principle #2
- be a community advocate – go with the direction of people; take the voice of the community and fight for your community back to your company
Pinko principle #3
- 100% authenticity – stop using the word “viral”. Creating viral is not authentic. It is not about creating connections; viral created by companies is damaging to client relations e.g. Chevvy Tahoe ad – they let everything run, including the bad [Connie's note: see Rocketboom]
Pinko principle #4
… [missed it]
- don’t ignore part of your market e.g. 90% of people who work with photos use Macs. Need to have Mac capability if you want to appeal to this market.
Pinko principle #5
… [missed it]
New-style medial hype: Snakes on a Plane [Snakes on a Blog.com]
How do you market to a community? You have to be part of the community.
How do you earn the reputation with little time? You cannot just drop things in and expect them to work. You have to take part and be a human like anyone else. You have to build a reputation and rapport.
Tag: mesh06
Tara “Miss Rogue” Hunt,
- Online marketing director, Riya.com
- blogger HorsePigCow
Tuesday, May 16, 2006
An interactive session, involving audience participation.
Who here have blogs? Who have multiple blogs?
Photos
- Flickr
- Riya.com
- Bubbleshare
Videos
- YouTube
People are becoming disenfranchised and want more. They want to find community.
- The Consumerist – how to sue an airline
People recognize marketing lies. There are too many unsatisfactory choices with products.
DRM locks people into their choices. Loosing your choice isn’t good either.
There are too many messages – there are ads everywhere. Who uses FireFox? You can get rid of the pop-ups and other ads.
The end consumer revolution has been around forever, but something has changed.
Threadless – T-shirt designs and people vote for them
Citizen media – what does it mean for the future. Bowiechick - video of girl using new Logitech camera potential. 250,000 downloads. What does this mean for marketing in the future? What is the potential??
- is this advertising? We don’t know
- we are finding a distrust of anything that is broadcast
- the video has been passed around MySpace only because it was a kid, not an expert
- what about a hybrid model, where they take this girl and put her video in an ad?
The wisdom of crowds – when you become an expert you stop learning.
Pinko marketing manifesto:
Pinko marketing wiki:
- marketing in the post-Cluetrain era.
Pinko principle #1
- inbound, rather than outbound messages – creating the tools for people to voice how they use a product; we can start using money used for outbound messages to instead make the product better
Pinko principle #2
- be a community advocate – go with the direction of people; take the voice of the community and fight for your community back to your company
Pinko principle #3
- 100% authenticity – stop using the word “viral”. Creating viral is not authentic. It is not about creating connections; viral created by companies is damaging to client relations e.g. Chevvy Tahoe ad – they let everything run, including the bad [Connie's note: see Rocketboom]
Pinko principle #4
… [missed it]
- don’t ignore part of your market e.g. 90% of people who work with photos use Macs. Need to have Mac capability if you want to appeal to this market.
Pinko principle #5
… [missed it]
New-style medial hype: Snakes on a Plane [Snakes on a Blog.com]
How do you market to a community? You have to be part of the community.
How do you earn the reputation with little time? You cannot just drop things in and expect them to work. You have to take part and be a human like anyone else. You have to build a reputation and rapport.
Tag: mesh06
Venture Capital and Web 2.0
Keynote Conversation: Venture Capital and Web 2.0
Matthew Ingram talks with venture capitalist and blogger Dr. Paul KedroskyTuesday, May 16, 2006
A lot of talk of Web 2.0. There is a lot of money floating around. There is a lot of uncertainty.
Maxthon - overlay over Internet Explorer
Venture capital is concentrated in what is perceived as the best companies. It is, however, a rigged market. The reason why the best funds look successful is because they are fishing in the best pond: they are surrounded by the best projects. The rest of us don’t have such good opportunities for investment.
Alternative assets = Venture capital
MI: If you can finance a Web 2.0 on your credit card, do you need the giant sums of money people are trying to hand out?
If you can avoid venture capital, do so. If you can build a company that doesn’t require capital and you can own 100% stock, you can exit at the full value of the company instead of worry about what the venture capitalists will take.
A lot of the consumer-based Web 2.0 companies can be created very cheaply. The democratization of entrepreneurship – it comes with a corollary: there is no longer a barrier to entry, you will have 30 competitors pop up. “Every monkey with a credit card is in the market.”
MI: Can you build a great big thing and then create a business model later?
Sure. Google is an excellent example. He has seen companies that had no idea what the business model was; some borrow business models from other successful companies. The precedent is well set. You may get a lot of venture capital money and stumble into a business model; however, to do this you better be on a very big scale.
Community building model that is hugely successful – e.g. grassroots dating at
Plentyoffish.com - if you keep the cost down and find like-minded community, you can be very successful.
MI: Is there a seed financing gap in Canada?
Everyone in the world thinks they have a seed financing gap, even in Silicon Valley. In Canada in particular, the level of wealth per capita, the level is low enough that you don’t have individuals that go out investing. The economics of see investing doesn’t work. You can’t keep track of your investments, you can’t sleep at night, you better have been invested in Skype.
VC helps companies attract talent.
If you invest too early, you are a seed investor. If you wait too long, you will be competing with big mezzanine investors.
Chicken and egg problem in Canada: we need more successful exits in populated areas to encourage people to create bigger and better companies. In Silicon Valley if you aren’t making 7 figures for your company you have to go out and build one because the guy down the street has.
There are Canadian venture guys. There is an appetite for investing in interesting things. Think creatively in how you approach people and how you structure thing, especially amongst the institutional investment community.
Tag: mesh06
Matthew Ingram talks with venture capitalist and blogger Dr. Paul KedroskyTuesday, May 16, 2006
A lot of talk of Web 2.0. There is a lot of money floating around. There is a lot of uncertainty.
Maxthon - overlay over Internet Explorer
Venture capital is concentrated in what is perceived as the best companies. It is, however, a rigged market. The reason why the best funds look successful is because they are fishing in the best pond: they are surrounded by the best projects. The rest of us don’t have such good opportunities for investment.
Alternative assets = Venture capital
MI: If you can finance a Web 2.0 on your credit card, do you need the giant sums of money people are trying to hand out?
If you can avoid venture capital, do so. If you can build a company that doesn’t require capital and you can own 100% stock, you can exit at the full value of the company instead of worry about what the venture capitalists will take.
A lot of the consumer-based Web 2.0 companies can be created very cheaply. The democratization of entrepreneurship – it comes with a corollary: there is no longer a barrier to entry, you will have 30 competitors pop up. “Every monkey with a credit card is in the market.”
MI: Can you build a great big thing and then create a business model later?
Sure. Google is an excellent example. He has seen companies that had no idea what the business model was; some borrow business models from other successful companies. The precedent is well set. You may get a lot of venture capital money and stumble into a business model; however, to do this you better be on a very big scale.
Community building model that is hugely successful – e.g. grassroots dating at
Plentyoffish.com - if you keep the cost down and find like-minded community, you can be very successful.
MI: Is there a seed financing gap in Canada?
Everyone in the world thinks they have a seed financing gap, even in Silicon Valley. In Canada in particular, the level of wealth per capita, the level is low enough that you don’t have individuals that go out investing. The economics of see investing doesn’t work. You can’t keep track of your investments, you can’t sleep at night, you better have been invested in Skype.
VC helps companies attract talent.
If you invest too early, you are a seed investor. If you wait too long, you will be competing with big mezzanine investors.
Chicken and egg problem in Canada: we need more successful exits in populated areas to encourage people to create bigger and better companies. In Silicon Valley if you aren’t making 7 figures for your company you have to go out and build one because the guy down the street has.
There are Canadian venture guys. There is an appetite for investing in interesting things. Think creatively in how you approach people and how you structure thing, especially amongst the institutional investment community.
Tag: mesh06
Tuesday, May 16, 2006
Gary King - high school student speaks at Mesh
King Gary - high school student spoke at "15 Minutes of Fame" session at the Mesh conference about passion for Web 2.0, and how the web can empower an individual.
- you need to be flexible and keep things simple
- today's web empowers people, gives them a voice with a blog
- today's collaboration allows anyone participate with Web 2.0
- his generation is becoming increasingly influential with Web 2.0
- teenagers more willing to experience websites and web-based applications; they have more time
- you have to target this age group if you want your website to have maximum exposure
- now important to change our perspective
- important for adults and teenagers to be invited to participate in the creation of the web
Great talk, Gary!! Thanks for bringing another perspective to Mesh.
Tag: Mesh06
- you need to be flexible and keep things simple
- today's web empowers people, gives them a voice with a blog
- today's collaboration allows anyone participate with Web 2.0
- his generation is becoming increasingly influential with Web 2.0
- teenagers more willing to experience websites and web-based applications; they have more time
- you have to target this age group if you want your website to have maximum exposure
- now important to change our perspective
- important for adults and teenagers to be invited to participate in the creation of the web
Great talk, Gary!! Thanks for bringing another perspective to Mesh.
Tag: Mesh06
Favorville : People Helping People
Favorville : People Helping People
Ask for a favour or give a favour. Drill down by city and community. Helping to build communities.
Ask for a favour or give a favour. Drill down by city and community. Helping to build communities.
The Future of Marketing
Keynote Conversation: The Future of Marketing
Stuart MacDonald talks with Steve Rubel of Edelman and Micropersuasion.com
Tuesday, May 16, 2006
Intro: Blog Micropersuasion is ranked 69th on Technorati. Steve is recognized as a thought leader of global media.
What is “Micropersuasion”? – we’ve talked for years about mass persuasion; however, one voice is just as essential.
Everyone blogs for different reasons. To use this medium for marketing, you have to understand why they are blogging. You have to understand the medium. It is about befriending the community. The new model is to give something to the community, and they will create some buzz.
Blogging is just one piece of the pie. Consumers are going to talk to each other and trust each other. A study shows we trust our peer most. Smart to build tools for people to find each other.
Clients and agencies are facing a host of challenges.
SM: What is working?
A lot of money is going to TV advertising, but a lot of it is changing. Word of mouth is working; PR is working. Online is the “great white underbelly” of marketing, where a lot of dollars are going. Marketing and PR are not dying; they are just being spread out.
SM: With the blogosphere, how do you deal with issue management. Small issues spin off into great big issues.
There is a lot of fear of this. It is not just horror stories; there are also success stories. Clients need to see cases.
SM: How do you know who is credible?
The community will tell us who is credible and who is not. Not just the big blogs, but all blogs. The minute he would write something consistently false, traffic would go elsewhere.
SM: It is a red herring; there are millions of blogs and who should I be talking to and who should I read?
It is not a numbers game. The biggest blogs are not necessarily the most credible. Some of the blogs with a more narrow readership are more deeply engaged with those people. You need to find which ones fit in best with your industry, your market.
He has seen some companies set up money for community marketing. Eg. Marketing dept. at Lego knows the hundred top on-line Lego evangelists.
Your ranking will depend on number of links coming into your site. Bloggers can have a big influence on this, can bring in a lot of traffic.
SM: What needs to happen in this agency / client world to wake people up to realize there are hundreds of thousands of people engaging in this way?
They are starting to wake up. They just have to decide whether they want to invest in it. Companies have to get it into their heads that narrow is good/ niche is good.
SM: This is still very early days. The Wal-mart situation was telling.
Recap: he runs a war room out of DC for Wal-mart. They have identified the most avid pro- and con-Wal-mart bloggers. They were keeping the bloggers in the loop with daily email. They found the bloggers were just cutting and pasting the message without attributing it to Wal-mart.
If there is a certain amount of buzz around something it is picked up in the press such as the New York Times immediately.
SM: MySpace doesn’t seem to register yet. What is happening with MySpace?
MySpace is just one piece of social software puzzle. It could be Flickr or YouTube. You have to look where people are hanging out and market there. Whatever you do with social community, you have to do things on the term of the community. Otherwise you could get laughed at and booted out of the community. You need to fund something of importance to that community.
Strumpet.com – a pool running to see how long Steve will last in his position at Edelman. He recognizes as a blogger that he lives in the public. With that, you have to take your lumps. The lesson for marketers is that, if you are going to engage the community, you’ve got to take the good with the bad.
Secondlife – a simulation game where you live your life. It came out of nowhere. The potential is terrific providing you can find an acceptable way to the community to engage. Eg. Some companies are buying up islands or stores. It will be right for some markets and not others.
Do bloggers need to learn new skills? No – they do what they do, they live their lives. Cannot be expected to learn a whole new skill set.
Whenever bloggers are taken and given a more elevated role, generally they will be a little more careful when they are blogging on behalf of an organization. They do still have to be real. You encourage them to be authentic, to give the good, the bad, and the ugly.
The ROI is never going to pay out. How do you convince clients to take the plunge? Ten years ago we talked about Internet advertising, we had the same issue. The metrics have to come in. He would measure conversations, engagement with the community. He suggests subsidizing things for the market.
How do you represent the masses when it is the educated tech elite doing the talking? Are you worried about engaging only a subset of the market? It is not an either/or situation. You still fund the traditional mediums.
Pay for play goes on in the “real” editorial world. There will be those incidents in the blogosphere. What do you think if it becomes prominent in the blogosphere? He recommends not going that way; it would become a polluted environment. Eg. Writing positively about a product for pay. Unless the rest of the world overnight changes, recommends not doing this.
Community ROI – if you can create passionate users, you get huge ROI. Comment on the techniques being used today? How many times was a conversation created with an influential person, and what kind of echo effect did that have? MSN, Google and Yahoo! – look at ranking. It will come back to whether people bought more products.
Is ROI baked into requirements by clients? Definitely. It may also exist in a way not invented yet.
Who has done it the worst? Anyone who has created a fake blog, or a character blog e.g. Captain Morgan ran for U.S. president. They are great for ad campaigns, but not for blogging. Put the real people in the blogs.
Getting people unrelated to a product blogging about it? He has not tried it, but it may be a way of widening the market, bridge to a higher audience providing it fits under the umbrella of the issues you are involved with.
Tag: Mesh06
Stuart MacDonald talks with Steve Rubel of Edelman and Micropersuasion.com
Tuesday, May 16, 2006
Intro: Blog Micropersuasion is ranked 69th on Technorati. Steve is recognized as a thought leader of global media.
What is “Micropersuasion”? – we’ve talked for years about mass persuasion; however, one voice is just as essential.
Everyone blogs for different reasons. To use this medium for marketing, you have to understand why they are blogging. You have to understand the medium. It is about befriending the community. The new model is to give something to the community, and they will create some buzz.
Blogging is just one piece of the pie. Consumers are going to talk to each other and trust each other. A study shows we trust our peer most. Smart to build tools for people to find each other.
Clients and agencies are facing a host of challenges.
SM: What is working?
A lot of money is going to TV advertising, but a lot of it is changing. Word of mouth is working; PR is working. Online is the “great white underbelly” of marketing, where a lot of dollars are going. Marketing and PR are not dying; they are just being spread out.
SM: With the blogosphere, how do you deal with issue management. Small issues spin off into great big issues.
There is a lot of fear of this. It is not just horror stories; there are also success stories. Clients need to see cases.
SM: How do you know who is credible?
The community will tell us who is credible and who is not. Not just the big blogs, but all blogs. The minute he would write something consistently false, traffic would go elsewhere.
SM: It is a red herring; there are millions of blogs and who should I be talking to and who should I read?
It is not a numbers game. The biggest blogs are not necessarily the most credible. Some of the blogs with a more narrow readership are more deeply engaged with those people. You need to find which ones fit in best with your industry, your market.
He has seen some companies set up money for community marketing. Eg. Marketing dept. at Lego knows the hundred top on-line Lego evangelists.
Your ranking will depend on number of links coming into your site. Bloggers can have a big influence on this, can bring in a lot of traffic.
SM: What needs to happen in this agency / client world to wake people up to realize there are hundreds of thousands of people engaging in this way?
They are starting to wake up. They just have to decide whether they want to invest in it. Companies have to get it into their heads that narrow is good/ niche is good.
SM: This is still very early days. The Wal-mart situation was telling.
Recap: he runs a war room out of DC for Wal-mart. They have identified the most avid pro- and con-Wal-mart bloggers. They were keeping the bloggers in the loop with daily email. They found the bloggers were just cutting and pasting the message without attributing it to Wal-mart.
If there is a certain amount of buzz around something it is picked up in the press such as the New York Times immediately.
SM: MySpace doesn’t seem to register yet. What is happening with MySpace?
MySpace is just one piece of social software puzzle. It could be Flickr or YouTube. You have to look where people are hanging out and market there. Whatever you do with social community, you have to do things on the term of the community. Otherwise you could get laughed at and booted out of the community. You need to fund something of importance to that community.
Strumpet.com – a pool running to see how long Steve will last in his position at Edelman. He recognizes as a blogger that he lives in the public. With that, you have to take your lumps. The lesson for marketers is that, if you are going to engage the community, you’ve got to take the good with the bad.
Secondlife – a simulation game where you live your life. It came out of nowhere. The potential is terrific providing you can find an acceptable way to the community to engage. Eg. Some companies are buying up islands or stores. It will be right for some markets and not others.
Do bloggers need to learn new skills? No – they do what they do, they live their lives. Cannot be expected to learn a whole new skill set.
Whenever bloggers are taken and given a more elevated role, generally they will be a little more careful when they are blogging on behalf of an organization. They do still have to be real. You encourage them to be authentic, to give the good, the bad, and the ugly.
The ROI is never going to pay out. How do you convince clients to take the plunge? Ten years ago we talked about Internet advertising, we had the same issue. The metrics have to come in. He would measure conversations, engagement with the community. He suggests subsidizing things for the market.
How do you represent the masses when it is the educated tech elite doing the talking? Are you worried about engaging only a subset of the market? It is not an either/or situation. You still fund the traditional mediums.
Pay for play goes on in the “real” editorial world. There will be those incidents in the blogosphere. What do you think if it becomes prominent in the blogosphere? He recommends not going that way; it would become a polluted environment. Eg. Writing positively about a product for pay. Unless the rest of the world overnight changes, recommends not doing this.
Community ROI – if you can create passionate users, you get huge ROI. Comment on the techniques being used today? How many times was a conversation created with an influential person, and what kind of echo effect did that have? MSN, Google and Yahoo! – look at ranking. It will come back to whether people bought more products.
Is ROI baked into requirements by clients? Definitely. It may also exist in a way not invented yet.
Who has done it the worst? Anyone who has created a fake blog, or a character blog e.g. Captain Morgan ran for U.S. president. They are great for ad campaigns, but not for blogging. Put the real people in the blogs.
Getting people unrelated to a product blogging about it? He has not tried it, but it may be a way of widening the market, bridge to a higher audience providing it fits under the umbrella of the issues you are involved with.
Tag: Mesh06
Will the Web Make Us Free
May 15, 2006
Fuzzy photo of moderator and Mesh founder Rob Hyndman introducing session. George Schlukbier of the U.S. Library of Congress to his left.
Unfortunately my battery ran out before I could get a better shot of the whole panel.
Tag: mesh06
Will the Web Make Us Free?
May 15, 2006
Moderator: Rob Hyndman
Panel: Ren Bucholz, Electronic Frontier Foundation
George Schlukbier, U.S. Library of Congress
Bob Young, Lulu.com
RH Question to George Schlukbier: What is the proper role of libraries now; what are libraries doing to adapt to this new reality; what is the future of libraries?
GS: Libraries have always been around in the digital age:
- digitization programs
- XML standards
- What are the formats for the 100 year archives? What are we going to keep, and who is going to keep it?
- Hopes we preserve more of the ‘Net than we currently have
- A lot of the issues will be addressed by the libraries
RH: Who is deciding this?
- a number of federal government agencies
- NARA gave a big grant for digitization preservation project
RH: libraries can be thought of where all the servers are kept. Are we not all creating libraries; are we not all content creators?
Bob Young: a lot of people are creating content that is being lost; a lot of this content deserves to get lost. How does the library differentiate what should be kept?
GS: That is part of what the libraries do, how the collection is focused. No one has put out a scope of what should be collected; for example, everything from the last election.
BY: whatever is popular is what they save at Lulu.com. They are trying to create a marketplace of content.
RH: How do you save what is worth saving?
BY: What authors need more at the beginning is distribution rather than protection or no one will be reading. Most authors need more distribution, not less. The moment you wrap DRM around a work, you are going to have less distribution. Once someone shows them authors and readers value DRM, then they will use it.
RH: Different shades of grey, or is DRM dead on arrival?
Ren Bucholz: For vast majority of authors, threat isn’t piracy but distribution. Late 1990s, early 2000s – Napster was more than a punchline; it was a Library of Alexandria of all the world’s music housed on individual computers – quite incredible looking at it without the hype. It made EFF sit up and take notice. The idea is not to shut it down but how to monetize the concept.
BY: We worry about DRM, privacy, and being shut down. What if, in the days of Napster, the music publishers had a powerful DRM and, if you were willing to pay, This helped more hear the music, and more people went out to the concerts as a result. The citizen and the consumer are the same person; why do we need the legislators tell us what we need?
RB: publishers trying to control rights they don’t actually have with regard to viewers and copyright holders.
See http://www.eff.org/share - mechanism for sharing
GS: When conceiving of the 100 year archive, they want a path to go back.
Looking for a tagging system so that people can tell them when it is the best thing they are doing and is worth keeping. Why isn’t the entertainment industry helping to pay for preserving their films and the like, and leaving it to government funding to do this?
RH: Open Content Alliance versus Google database
GS: Best thing that happened for libraries was Google’s announcement and the Open Content Alliance - suddenly this material is seen as having worth and being important.
Tag: Mesh06
Moderator: Rob Hyndman
Panel: Ren Bucholz, Electronic Frontier Foundation
George Schlukbier, U.S. Library of Congress
Bob Young, Lulu.com
RH Question to George Schlukbier: What is the proper role of libraries now; what are libraries doing to adapt to this new reality; what is the future of libraries?
GS: Libraries have always been around in the digital age:
- digitization programs
- XML standards
- What are the formats for the 100 year archives? What are we going to keep, and who is going to keep it?
- Hopes we preserve more of the ‘Net than we currently have
- A lot of the issues will be addressed by the libraries
RH: Who is deciding this?
- a number of federal government agencies
- NARA gave a big grant for digitization preservation project
RH: libraries can be thought of where all the servers are kept. Are we not all creating libraries; are we not all content creators?
Bob Young: a lot of people are creating content that is being lost; a lot of this content deserves to get lost. How does the library differentiate what should be kept?
GS: That is part of what the libraries do, how the collection is focused. No one has put out a scope of what should be collected; for example, everything from the last election.
BY: whatever is popular is what they save at Lulu.com. They are trying to create a marketplace of content.
RH: How do you save what is worth saving?
BY: What authors need more at the beginning is distribution rather than protection or no one will be reading. Most authors need more distribution, not less. The moment you wrap DRM around a work, you are going to have less distribution. Once someone shows them authors and readers value DRM, then they will use it.
RH: Different shades of grey, or is DRM dead on arrival?
Ren Bucholz: For vast majority of authors, threat isn’t piracy but distribution. Late 1990s, early 2000s – Napster was more than a punchline; it was a Library of Alexandria of all the world’s music housed on individual computers – quite incredible looking at it without the hype. It made EFF sit up and take notice. The idea is not to shut it down but how to monetize the concept.
BY: We worry about DRM, privacy, and being shut down. What if, in the days of Napster, the music publishers had a powerful DRM and, if you were willing to pay, This helped more hear the music, and more people went out to the concerts as a result. The citizen and the consumer are the same person; why do we need the legislators tell us what we need?
RB: publishers trying to control rights they don’t actually have with regard to viewers and copyright holders.
See http://www.eff.org/share - mechanism for sharing
GS: When conceiving of the 100 year archive, they want a path to go back.
Looking for a tagging system so that people can tell them when it is the best thing they are doing and is worth keeping. Why isn’t the entertainment industry helping to pay for preserving their films and the like, and leaving it to government funding to do this?
RH: Open Content Alliance versus Google database
GS: Best thing that happened for libraries was Google’s announcement and the Open Content Alliance - suddenly this material is seen as having worth and being important.
Tag: Mesh06
The Future of Broadcasting
From left to right:
Barnaby Marshall (moderator);
Jian Ghomeshi, CBC broadcaster;
Andrew Baron, co-founder of video blog Rocketboom;
Amber MacArthur, podcaster and G4TechTV broadcaster
Tag: Mesh06
Monday, May 15, 2006
The Future of Broadcasting
Moderator: Barnaby Marshall
Panelists: Jian Ghomeshi, Andrew Baron, Amber MacArthur
Is our use of technology deep and long lasting, or fleet and shallow?
Jian Ghomeshi:
Examples of broadcasters/news media buying diversity:
Newscorp buying MySpace
NY Times first time online has exceeded paper format – they have done an excellent job of diversifying so have nothing to worry about – paper format may be dying, but NYT won’t die.
If it is the end of the platform, it is not the end of the major players
Andrew Baron
With iPod and iTunes – Apple is setting the standards and has created their own gate keeping scenario but everyone has access.
Rocketboom as an example – the only way previously to promote their show, they would have had to use a traditional distributor, but access would not have been available to them. Now distribution is available to everyone and the “long tail” can thrive. There is an increasingly level playing field. Bands can make an album that would have cost $1 million now can be made for $1,000.
Rocketboom got rid of the middlemen and have worked directly with the advertisers. They have a page laying out the “worth” of ads. Costs them $25 per episode, but the advertising worth is three times the worth of a television show.
Rb available on TiVo – collaboration – can see collaboration continuing on all levels; don’t have to mass market to the lowest common denominator any more.
This is the perfect medium for the guy who has psychological problems who cannot socialize but who can put together a program in his basement.
Amber MacArthur
New TV show called Torrent – featuring the best video podcasts from people around the world so a challenge to straddle both worlds and show old media how new media works. Reach: traditional TV cannot compete with video podcasts that have “eyeballs” from around the world. The power of the internet can get your voice out to as many people as possible.
Broadcasters are going to have to start paying attention to this new medium or they are going to be left behind.
Things like YouTube are a better way to share content. If you push people off-line, they are going to go elsewhere for their content.
Jian Ghomeshi
Pandora project
– most of his work has been to promote new media
– where people can get excited about new technology
– pay user fees and don’t have to watch ads
End of broadcasting
- CBC has been supportive of podcasting
- Yahoo Music model was set up to replace radio, not unlike Pandora
- Renting versus owning – people like to have a jewel case sitting on a shelf
The ability to be heard, to get the message out, if you are a band that is not widely prominent has profoundly changed
Andrew Baron
Previously the TV Guide was seen as the future entry point; now everyone is scrambling to create the ideal entry point. Now it is becoming like Google where you look for and “pull” the programming.
Jian Ghomeshi
We still need the best writers, producers, videographers. “The cream of the crop will rise to the top.”
Amber MacArthur
A lot of people can do it, but a lot people cannot do it well. The best will rise to the top. Competition is a healthy, positive thing.
Andrew Baron
People only have so much time to watch. Audience will be spread out.
Two revenue-generating models:
- advertising
- subscription
Jian Ghomeshi
Q: Will traditional media die?
A: Most noticeable affect is with the newspapers, then commercial radio (not talk or public radio) – may not be able to sustain themselves in the next 20 or 30 years.
Amber MacArthur
Print is easiest to do on line; video is difficult to do online and do well.
Tag: Mesh06
Panelists: Jian Ghomeshi, Andrew Baron, Amber MacArthur
Is our use of technology deep and long lasting, or fleet and shallow?
Jian Ghomeshi:
Examples of broadcasters/news media buying diversity:
Newscorp buying MySpace
NY Times first time online has exceeded paper format – they have done an excellent job of diversifying so have nothing to worry about – paper format may be dying, but NYT won’t die.
If it is the end of the platform, it is not the end of the major players
Andrew Baron
With iPod and iTunes – Apple is setting the standards and has created their own gate keeping scenario but everyone has access.
Rocketboom as an example – the only way previously to promote their show, they would have had to use a traditional distributor, but access would not have been available to them. Now distribution is available to everyone and the “long tail” can thrive. There is an increasingly level playing field. Bands can make an album that would have cost $1 million now can be made for $1,000.
Rocketboom got rid of the middlemen and have worked directly with the advertisers. They have a page laying out the “worth” of ads. Costs them $25 per episode, but the advertising worth is three times the worth of a television show.
Rb available on TiVo – collaboration – can see collaboration continuing on all levels; don’t have to mass market to the lowest common denominator any more.
This is the perfect medium for the guy who has psychological problems who cannot socialize but who can put together a program in his basement.
Amber MacArthur
New TV show called Torrent – featuring the best video podcasts from people around the world so a challenge to straddle both worlds and show old media how new media works. Reach: traditional TV cannot compete with video podcasts that have “eyeballs” from around the world. The power of the internet can get your voice out to as many people as possible.
Broadcasters are going to have to start paying attention to this new medium or they are going to be left behind.
Things like YouTube are a better way to share content. If you push people off-line, they are going to go elsewhere for their content.
Jian Ghomeshi
Pandora project
– most of his work has been to promote new media
– where people can get excited about new technology
– pay user fees and don’t have to watch ads
End of broadcasting
- CBC has been supportive of podcasting
- Yahoo Music model was set up to replace radio, not unlike Pandora
- Renting versus owning – people like to have a jewel case sitting on a shelf
The ability to be heard, to get the message out, if you are a band that is not widely prominent has profoundly changed
Andrew Baron
Previously the TV Guide was seen as the future entry point; now everyone is scrambling to create the ideal entry point. Now it is becoming like Google where you look for and “pull” the programming.
Jian Ghomeshi
We still need the best writers, producers, videographers. “The cream of the crop will rise to the top.”
Amber MacArthur
A lot of people can do it, but a lot people cannot do it well. The best will rise to the top. Competition is a healthy, positive thing.
Andrew Baron
People only have so much time to watch. Audience will be spread out.
Two revenue-generating models:
- advertising
- subscription
Jian Ghomeshi
Q: Will traditional media die?
A: Most noticeable affect is with the newspapers, then commercial radio (not talk or public radio) – may not be able to sustain themselves in the next 20 or 30 years.
Amber MacArthur
Print is easiest to do on line; video is difficult to do online and do well.
Tag: Mesh06
Mesh welcome
Mesh conference on Web 2.0 in Toronto May 15, 2006- the audience waits for the opening remarks.
Tag: Mesh06
Michael Geist interviewed by Rob Hyndman
Mesh conference on Web 2.0 issues in Toronto May 15, 2006.
Tag: Mesh06
Rob Hyndman Conversation with Michael Geist
**Raw notes** links have yet to be added!
Mesh Conference 2006
Rob Hyndman conversation with Michael Geist
May 15, 2006
Dr. Michael Geist – introduction by Rob Hyndman
– a leading international thinker on IP and law
- critic of US copyright law
- looking for made-in-Canada solution
- law professor at University of Ottawa
- nationally syndicated columnist in Toronto Star and Ottawa Citizen
- widely read blog
Introductory talk by Michael Geist
Sam Bulte – Liberal candidate in last Federal election brought down by bloggers reporting on her association with copyright stakeholders? Word spread after Michael Geist put this into context on his blog.
- Sorry Everybody
- Apologies Accepted
- Fanfiction.net – script writing
- Find it Rip it Mix it Share it Come and Get it – Creative Archive * Group
- Backstage.bbc.co.uk
Flickr
Creative Commons
Soundclick
Internet Archives
Google Scholar
Google Book Search
SourceForge.net – 1.2 registered users
Print media- huge growth for those who increase online content
Book market – “What is more long tail than Canadian content?” – go to a Barnes & Noble in the U.S. and try to find Canadian content other than Margaret Atwood
Irwin Law – In the Public Interest – read free online, covered with Creative Commons license
CBS Netcast – freely postcasting shows online
YouTube – growth of the clip culture
Video gaming market – TV-like numbers – companies setting up in Canada because of strength of programming community.
Cineclix
BitTorrent – Warner Bros. struck a deal to distribute movies online
Radio – CBC podcasting “best of” – can’t afford the bandwidth to put all their shows up
Kyouradio.com
Music – struggling – competition, retail channel changes, pricing points down
- 90% Cdn music produced by indies
- Puretracks- [can’t be used by Mac users]
- Canadian Music Creators Coalition - http://www.musiccreators.ca/
- Jane Siberry – own pricing model
What’s the policy?
How do we encourage this kind of activity?
Conversation with Rob Hyndman
Bill 60 Copyright died on the Order Paper; new legislation is expected to be introduced this fall; expects it to be more U.S.-style legislation.
The current protection tools currently don’t work. This legislation has an impact with free speech and scientific research.
iTunes phenomenon – they were able to negotiate content protection deals with the distributors – only did this once Napster made them realize how people wanted music delivered, and they were going to download whether they paid or not.
Why more content on U.S. iTunes than Canadian? Where is the French content? Economic parity – Apple starts with the larger players; some of the larger players have held out e.g. Sony dragging its feet, unwilling to move into the market place. It is more about protecting their devices in competition with iPod rather than protecting their music.
Effort to rollback DRM – are there signs there is flexibility in this area?
Users already have control over the content; some changes are taking place. Countries are now realizing that policies put into place in mid-90s do not cover current situations, current technology.
We are clearly seeing a move to collaborative content production. What does this tell us about the ideal copyright policy?
We do need copyright; it plays an important role. Most of the legislation controls are not about copyright or the artist; they are about trying to control markets. Nigeria – number one movie industry; people are making own movies and selling them on the streets without copyright coverage.
Do we need copyright policy in Canada?
Starting point really is: “do no harm” but we have to realistically realize in politics people do not want to be seen as doing nothing.
What is the current political reality and what are the reasons for it?
25 years of lobbying; musicians speaking out (Canadian Music Creators Coalition) was a breath of fresh air but it is hard to undo 25 years of lobbying. The politicians did stand up and take notice, and met with this group. CMCC is breaking away from CRRA (Canadian Retransmission Right Association).
What is your feeling about the severity of the times?
Net neutrality is a big issue, especially in the U.S.; there is an issue about whether certain levels of the internet should be at a cost. Some have the ability to block access to certain websites e.g. blocking a union from accessing a website that supports it, or blocking a whole city from seeing a website. We have examples in Canada of discrimination blocking people from seeing certain types of websites. There is a need for clear net neutrality legislation. The end users want to know they can access content without being blocked by Rogers, Telus, etc.
Three years for now, will political parties have missed the boat? What will the political landscape look like?
After the last election, the Bulte issue raised some interest. What is the number of letters you need for something to get noticed? You need only two letters from within your riding to get noticed by your Member of Parliament.
Our policies that are premised around the need for incentives to get people to create are faulty. Many people coding for Open Source without any incentive, for example.
Tag: Mesh06
Mesh Conference 2006
Rob Hyndman conversation with Michael Geist
May 15, 2006
Dr. Michael Geist – introduction by Rob Hyndman
– a leading international thinker on IP and law
- critic of US copyright law
- looking for made-in-Canada solution
- law professor at University of Ottawa
- nationally syndicated columnist in Toronto Star and Ottawa Citizen
- widely read blog
Introductory talk by Michael Geist
Sam Bulte – Liberal candidate in last Federal election brought down by bloggers reporting on her association with copyright stakeholders? Word spread after Michael Geist put this into context on his blog.
- Sorry Everybody
- Apologies Accepted
- Fanfiction.net – script writing
- Find it Rip it Mix it Share it Come and Get it – Creative Archive * Group
- Backstage.bbc.co.uk
Flickr
Creative Commons
Soundclick
Internet Archives
Google Scholar
Google Book Search
SourceForge.net – 1.2 registered users
Print media- huge growth for those who increase online content
Book market – “What is more long tail than Canadian content?” – go to a Barnes & Noble in the U.S. and try to find Canadian content other than Margaret Atwood
Irwin Law – In the Public Interest – read free online, covered with Creative Commons license
CBS Netcast – freely postcasting shows online
YouTube – growth of the clip culture
Video gaming market – TV-like numbers – companies setting up in Canada because of strength of programming community.
Cineclix
BitTorrent – Warner Bros. struck a deal to distribute movies online
Radio – CBC podcasting “best of” – can’t afford the bandwidth to put all their shows up
Kyouradio.com
Music – struggling – competition, retail channel changes, pricing points down
- 90% Cdn music produced by indies
- Puretracks- [can’t be used by Mac users]
- Canadian Music Creators Coalition - http://www.musiccreators.ca/
- Jane Siberry – own pricing model
What’s the policy?
How do we encourage this kind of activity?
Conversation with Rob Hyndman
Bill 60 Copyright died on the Order Paper; new legislation is expected to be introduced this fall; expects it to be more U.S.-style legislation.
The current protection tools currently don’t work. This legislation has an impact with free speech and scientific research.
iTunes phenomenon – they were able to negotiate content protection deals with the distributors – only did this once Napster made them realize how people wanted music delivered, and they were going to download whether they paid or not.
Why more content on U.S. iTunes than Canadian? Where is the French content? Economic parity – Apple starts with the larger players; some of the larger players have held out e.g. Sony dragging its feet, unwilling to move into the market place. It is more about protecting their devices in competition with iPod rather than protecting their music.
Effort to rollback DRM – are there signs there is flexibility in this area?
Users already have control over the content; some changes are taking place. Countries are now realizing that policies put into place in mid-90s do not cover current situations, current technology.
We are clearly seeing a move to collaborative content production. What does this tell us about the ideal copyright policy?
We do need copyright; it plays an important role. Most of the legislation controls are not about copyright or the artist; they are about trying to control markets. Nigeria – number one movie industry; people are making own movies and selling them on the streets without copyright coverage.
Do we need copyright policy in Canada?
Starting point really is: “do no harm” but we have to realistically realize in politics people do not want to be seen as doing nothing.
What is the current political reality and what are the reasons for it?
25 years of lobbying; musicians speaking out (Canadian Music Creators Coalition) was a breath of fresh air but it is hard to undo 25 years of lobbying. The politicians did stand up and take notice, and met with this group. CMCC is breaking away from CRRA (Canadian Retransmission Right Association).
What is your feeling about the severity of the times?
Net neutrality is a big issue, especially in the U.S.; there is an issue about whether certain levels of the internet should be at a cost. Some have the ability to block access to certain websites e.g. blocking a union from accessing a website that supports it, or blocking a whole city from seeing a website. We have examples in Canada of discrimination blocking people from seeing certain types of websites. There is a need for clear net neutrality legislation. The end users want to know they can access content without being blocked by Rogers, Telus, etc.
Three years for now, will political parties have missed the boat? What will the political landscape look like?
After the last election, the Bulte issue raised some interest. What is the number of letters you need for something to get noticed? You need only two letters from within your riding to get noticed by your Member of Parliament.
Our policies that are premised around the need for incentives to get people to create are faulty. Many people coding for Open Source without any incentive, for example.
Tag: Mesh06
Mesh Conference 2006
Howdy! I've barely recovered from the CALL conference and today I am at the first ever Mesh Conference in Toronto. It is a Web 2.0 conference. A few faces familiar to me are here: Jim Milles, Jane Dysart, and Rob Hyndman (one of the founders of Mesh).
Finally, a conference with power in the floor and free wireless! I am posting this during the third session, and I will try to add content as I can. Kind of ironic since I haven't posted much from the CALL conference yet. But, we do what we can.
Enjoy!
Connie
Tag: Mesh06
Friday, May 05, 2006
Check out CALL Blog 2006
If you are wondering what I'm up to, I'm now in Edmonton gearing up for the CALL conference. Some of my comings and goings are being recorded over at the CALL Blog 2006.
Cheers,
Connie
Cheers,
Connie
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